Entry tags:
(no subject)
I'm coming back from the wastelands of real life to discuss something that's driving me CRAZY.
Before that, I just want to say: hi, everyone! I'm not dead! I think I have finally learned the secret to dreamwidth—I don't write entries if I'm already texting immediately on discord or chat, so here's me testing my theory.
(It's so nice to see my friends page. I'm on dreamwidth twice a year for my![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
poetry_fiction challenge, but that's it. I'm so glad dreamwidth is still quiet and thriving.)
But let us get back on topic.
Let's talk about The Phantom of the Opera.
Let's start with some backstory.
Some of you may know that I grew up with Phantom of the Opera—my mom was a big fan, and it's been a part of my life since I was five years old, when the POTO Highlights album was released. I've seen like, four of the movies,two three English musicals (I forgot about Love Never Dies) and obsessively read an annotated version of Gaston Leroux's novel.
I am also a huge, huge fan of Erik and Christine.
That being said, I'm not really fannish about POTO.
Then, over the last month or so, one of the reaction YouTubers I watch sat down to watch POTO, after having been introduced to musicals through Hamilton, Epic the Musical, and Six, among other very modern musicals. I haven't really listened to the soundtrack in a long while (Other than All I Ask of You, Music of the Night and Point of No Return, which I karaoke privately with my roommate![[profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mintdivision pretty regularly) so I was excited to watch his introduction to what really was an incredibly formative musical for me.
Long story short, I'm back on my POTO bullshit, babes! LOLOL
I'm really susceptible to ear worms, so it's basically running in the back of my head 24/7 until I find something else to replace it. And, since I'm thinking pretty singularly of POTO, I thought: You know, I've never looked around to see what the fandom of POTO is like. I wonder what the discussions are like?
And I know this is going to shock everyone, but people are wrong on the internet. I don't want to get into arguments with kids, so I'm plopping my thoughts into this post instead.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places on the internet, but I have seen, almost entirely, discourse on why do people ship Christine and the Phantom when it's gross and toxic and gas lighting?
To which I ask… Is this just because fandom has leaned more toward moral purity, or do people really not get it?
One could argue that, in the original novel, the back and forth that she feels between Raoul and the Phantom is a metaphorical pull between grief/loss/death and mourning her father and girlhood versus growing up and choosing to move forward instead of languish. Like, yeah, the parallel between Erik = dark and Raoul = light is not particularly subtle.
But there's something compelling about an obsessive, reclusive genius who's willing to kill, and yet chooses to give all his considerable attention and talents to one woman.
There seem to be so many discussions about how they can ship what they want to ship because it's FANTASY or because they don't like Raoul. Even worse is a book I just read today, which, honestly, performs character assassination on Phillipe and Raoul De Changy and excuses Erik's murders to be, idk, more palatable.
We don't need to do that. POTO is gothic horror, and part of that is gothic romance.
I envision it like this: we don't need to make excuses for Erik's obsessive, physically and mentally threatening acts. The draw, the pull, of Phantom is his charisma in spite of all of that. We lose some of the appeal when we start peeling away his darkness.
I think the story can stand as is and still have room for a Christine/Erik romance if we consider just one thing: Christine is a proto-monster fucker.
Now hear me out: Erik is, for all intents and purposes, a siren. Monstrous, capable of committing great acts of violence, with a near magical voice and an incredible mind. And how delicious is it to think that this creature would move heaven and earth for one person, and that person is Christine?
I see this a lot in 'problematic' stories featuring like, mafia or werewolves, and it's not that much of a stretch to consider POTO in that lens as well. It's all about the power of holding a dangerous creature in the palm of your hand and knowing that they would do anything for you.
Raoul is safe. He loves Christine. He's the pathway for Christine to lead a normal life. We don't need excuses, and we don't need to destroy his character to accept that just maybe, Christine might choose the dangerous and more compelling Erik instead.
Ugh, thanks so much for letting me get this off my chest. It was eating me up!
Before that, I just want to say: hi, everyone! I'm not dead! I think I have finally learned the secret to dreamwidth—I don't write entries if I'm already texting immediately on discord or chat, so here's me testing my theory.
(It's so nice to see my friends page. I'm on dreamwidth twice a year for my
poetry_fiction challenge, but that's it. I'm so glad dreamwidth is still quiet and thriving.)But let us get back on topic.
Let's talk about The Phantom of the Opera.
Let's start with some backstory.
Some of you may know that I grew up with Phantom of the Opera—my mom was a big fan, and it's been a part of my life since I was five years old, when the POTO Highlights album was released. I've seen like, four of the movies,
I am also a huge, huge fan of Erik and Christine.
That being said, I'm not really fannish about POTO.
Then, over the last month or so, one of the reaction YouTubers I watch sat down to watch POTO, after having been introduced to musicals through Hamilton, Epic the Musical, and Six, among other very modern musicals. I haven't really listened to the soundtrack in a long while (Other than All I Ask of You, Music of the Night and Point of No Return, which I karaoke privately with my roommate
mintdivision pretty regularly) so I was excited to watch his introduction to what really was an incredibly formative musical for me.Long story short, I'm back on my POTO bullshit, babes! LOLOL
I'm really susceptible to ear worms, so it's basically running in the back of my head 24/7 until I find something else to replace it. And, since I'm thinking pretty singularly of POTO, I thought: You know, I've never looked around to see what the fandom of POTO is like. I wonder what the discussions are like?
And I know this is going to shock everyone, but people are wrong on the internet. I don't want to get into arguments with kids, so I'm plopping my thoughts into this post instead.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places on the internet, but I have seen, almost entirely, discourse on why do people ship Christine and the Phantom when it's gross and toxic and gas lighting?
To which I ask… Is this just because fandom has leaned more toward moral purity, or do people really not get it?
One could argue that, in the original novel, the back and forth that she feels between Raoul and the Phantom is a metaphorical pull between grief/loss/death and mourning her father and girlhood versus growing up and choosing to move forward instead of languish. Like, yeah, the parallel between Erik = dark and Raoul = light is not particularly subtle.
But there's something compelling about an obsessive, reclusive genius who's willing to kill, and yet chooses to give all his considerable attention and talents to one woman.
There seem to be so many discussions about how they can ship what they want to ship because it's FANTASY or because they don't like Raoul. Even worse is a book I just read today, which, honestly, performs character assassination on Phillipe and Raoul De Changy and excuses Erik's murders to be, idk, more palatable.
We don't need to do that. POTO is gothic horror, and part of that is gothic romance.
I envision it like this: we don't need to make excuses for Erik's obsessive, physically and mentally threatening acts. The draw, the pull, of Phantom is his charisma in spite of all of that. We lose some of the appeal when we start peeling away his darkness.
I think the story can stand as is and still have room for a Christine/Erik romance if we consider just one thing: Christine is a proto-monster fucker.
Now hear me out: Erik is, for all intents and purposes, a siren. Monstrous, capable of committing great acts of violence, with a near magical voice and an incredible mind. And how delicious is it to think that this creature would move heaven and earth for one person, and that person is Christine?
I see this a lot in 'problematic' stories featuring like, mafia or werewolves, and it's not that much of a stretch to consider POTO in that lens as well. It's all about the power of holding a dangerous creature in the palm of your hand and knowing that they would do anything for you.
Raoul is safe. He loves Christine. He's the pathway for Christine to lead a normal life. We don't need excuses, and we don't need to destroy his character to accept that just maybe, Christine might choose the dangerous and more compelling Erik instead.
Ugh, thanks so much for letting me get this off my chest. It was eating me up!
no subject
Raoul is safe. He loves Christine. He's the pathway for Christine to lead a normal life. We don't need excuses, and we don't need to destroy his character to accept that just maybe, Christine might choose the dangerous and more compelling Erik instead.
As a teen, when I first came across POTO, I had no love for Raoul. I thought he was dull. He seemed a bit... blah. Yes, he's the safe option but he also doesn't seem to put in a great deal of effort towards Christine and oh, then we have the Phantom. This dark and desperate figure who reaches out to Christine, who does everything he can to draw her into the spotlight and share the magic of music. It's a gothic romance, but there's an appeal there. To be so wanted, to be valued and taught, to find someone who dreams of you excelling at your career -- rather than becoming a wife and retiring to private life.
And then seeing it again in my thirties, I changed my mind on Raoul. He's not as dramatic, not as appealing, but he does try. He does care for Christine. He doesn't pray on her grief for her father or try to frighten her into choosing him. (Plus, there's something about the mannikin dressed as Christine, the way it feels like the Phantom is trying to mold her into who he wants her to be.) Watching it as an adult didn't feel like being supported by someone who cared so much as being shaped and pressured into the Phantom's ideal woman. The lack of respecting her choice is what really came through.
...but... yeah. The story works because there's such a strong pull for Christine to both of them.
(Plus, there was the whole character asassination in Love Never Dies that totally made me want to support Raoul more out of sheer spite.)
no subject
I see where you're coming from, especially with the mannequin, but I feel like there's a lot of separation between novel!Erik and ALW!Erik. Webber really made Erik kind of a stand in for his own feelings for Sarah Brightman, and that's a whole other conversation. The mannequin didn't happen in the novel (or weirdly, the 25th anniversary performance at Albert Hall.)
...I totally forgot about Love Never Dies! That's just. Yeah. It's so bad I literally blocked it from my memory.
no subject
>mannequin
Thank you! I could not remember how to spell that -- but also didn't care enough to google and check. (I got distracted.)
>It's so bad I literally blocked it from my memory
Smart choice, honestly. That was... oh. So bad. And so terribly disappointing.
no subject
There seem to be so many discussions about how they can ship what they want to ship because it's FANTASY or because they don't like Raoul. Even worse is a book I just read today, which, honestly, performs character assassination on Phillipe and Raoul De Changy and excuses Erik's murders to be, idk, more palatable.
I think that's just modern fandom and purity culture doing its thing. Erik is a villain, so you're not allowed to ship him with the heroine, unless you find a way to mentally re-conceptualize him as a tragically misunderstood hero and woobify him into a poor little meow-meow who never did any wrong.
I've not been in POTO fandom for a long time, but it's the same pattern you run into in a lot of other fandoms now as well.
(I was all about Erik/Christine when I first saw the musical, and then I watched "Love Never Dies" with the revised West End ending and came away shipping Erik/Raoul hard, LOL. I don't know how those two assholes will manage to raise Gustave into a functional member of society, but I'm here for that trainwreck.)
no subject
I do really wish general fandom was more able to consider genre and themes. Consider the gothic romance will be a gothic romance! (Consider the sidekick comic book and the fantasy children's fiction is going to have kids doing dangerous things, consider the half hour comedy is going to continue to be goofy jokes. And so on.)
He's totally a siren!! Now I want to watch it again. (And read it?)